Delicate question

[Deborah0]

  This is a question that I have seen arise numerous times in the host community, and I imagine those broaching it are invariably, perhaps even painfully, aware of the delicacy of their question.  The stories are each different, but there are some similar themes.  

Tina and Laura are hosts.  They have a 2 bedroom apartment in Queens, in New York City.  They originally started out as roommates each occupying one bedroom in their 2 bedroom apartment, but then when Airbnb came along, they heard that some of their friends were making a good income renting out a bedroom on Airbnb.  Their rent is high, and they could use the extra income.  So they got Tina's bedroom set up as a guest room, and moved most of Tina's things into Laura's room and the living room, and then listed the bedroom on Airbnb.  They were amazed at how popular their place was -- they got a lot of bookings.  When they had bookings, Tina and Laura would either stay in the same bedroom, or Tina would sleep on the sofa in the living room.  They would have usually about 10 to 15 days booked each month.  

There was one little issue, and it was a delicate one.  THey hadn't asked their landlord for permission to have AIrbnb guests, and their rental agreement said "no subletting."   Tina and Laura didn't actually know what was the exact meaning of " subletting".  They had asked their friend Brian, and he said that it was subletting when you rented out your place while you were away, like on vacation, but if you were still staying in your own apartment while the guest was there, that wasn't subletting and it was okay.  Apart from that, their landlord was a big time landlord with a lot of properties and they hardly ever saw or heard from him, and so they thought, what he doesn't know won't hurt him.  In fact one of their friends, Lisa, also had an apartment in Queens, and was Airbnb-ing it, and she also had a lease that said "no subletting" and she said she thought her landlord actually didn't care if she had guests.  LIsa had said her landlord saw some of her guests arriving with her a couple times, and he didn't say or ask anything, so she thought all was cool.  

But Tina and Laura just heard another story, about Jim, a tenant host in Brooklyn, who got an eviction notice from his landlord when the landlord found out he was doing Airbnb hosting.  Jim tried to fight the eviction but was not successful, and is having to move out of his rent controlled apartment he has been in for 12 years.  Now Tina and Laura  are scared and wonder what to do.  They definitely don't want to get evicted.  They thought of asking their landlord if it was okay to do, but were worried he would say no.  Or he might ask if they've been hosting already.  Tina and Laura think some of the other tenants in their building know that they are doing Airbnb hosting (their immediate neighbor does) but they don't know if any others in their building (a 60 unit building) are hosts.  

So Tina comes to the host community to ask advice about what to do in this situation. What would your advice be?   

[Till-and-Jutta0]

We are hosts - and landlords. It's no good to start hosting, or to continue hosting, and to check the regulations. Not only the landlord's permission, but also city regulations, taxes and other questions have to be considered carefully. It might work for some time without paying attention to this. But the day will come, when the host will wake-up from their dreams.

IMHO hosts like this contribute to Arbnb's growing bad public image, against which the management tries to struggle hard. Let's help them and be honest hosts.

I as a landlord would stop any subletting immediately.

Just another example for Airbnb's problem I found this morning while looking for this Youtube video. Look at the comments.

[Daniel1]

I think the only appropriate answer is to do what is legal. If airbnb hosts disregard or bend lease contracts ("no subletting"), or not become compliant with city and state laws and regulations, then they are slowly killing airbnb. We only succeed when it is above board, legal, and in the open.

[Helga0]

There is not much use to discuss what they should have done, the situation is at that point in time.

They can talk to their landlord, try to make him see his advatages in them receiving guests like a well kept apartment, no worry about the tenants ability to pay the rent alsways on time and ask their landlord for permission. I'd try to avoid questions about the past, maybe mention that they had some relatives and friends of school over who spoke about hosting (on another site). That explains the guests till now and I would put my listing in pause before talking to him. And mention that it is acutally hard work to have other people there, even if they are family. Or friends.

I'd be prepared to negotiate that permission, avoid a higher rent - "that would make it senseless, if we don't get guests, we could not pay the rent and if we get a few, it would be still hard" - but offer something to calm the concern, a higher deposit, a test period, a renovation overdue but normally the landlord's duty, etc.

If he refuses, they are not worse off. If he searches for proof then and finds it in spite of the light precautions, he was alrady motivated to find a reason to evict them.

If he accepts, they can do it openly and it will be better for everyone.

Another possibility is to continue till he finds out and is really angry at them.

They can also hunt for another apartment, either cheaper or with permission to sublet.

[Judy0]

The other side of the coin - I had a booking in Barcelona cancelled this year ten days before my arrival, as the host had to suddenly move out.  She was very apologetic and upset and my guess is she was evicted. Her listing is gone.

This is partly where the problem lies with a rented property, as guests book in good faith and a host  may then move out/cancel in the interim.  Some people, like me, are ridiculous planners and book months ahead for their trips. 

Having to suddenly have to scrounge around to find another available property can be a pain when you have everything locked in.  I panicked and booked the first place available, and then received an email from airbnb offering a partial payment towards my booking - too late, already paid for, so I lost that too.

[Helga0]

Judy, so sorry that happened to you.

Being on such bad terms with your landlord that he would evict you on the spot at the first good reason and then hosting without permission is quite foolish and you should not have had to suffer the consequences - unfortunately there is no obligatory intelligence and character test for hosts and guests.

As for the situation, if the stay is cancelled from the host, then you get refund and the host is punished. (With penalty fees and loosing superhost status and dropping down in search results etc). A host can only avoid these punishments, if he has good reason like a death in the household or being in hosptial - with proof. I suppose cheating on the landlord and getting evicted is no justifyable reason at all.

On the guest side, If you ask airbnb for help immediately, the refund is credited to your airbnb account so you can use it for the replacement booking. That's practical if your credit card has limits and you could not pay a second rent whilst waiting that the bank processes the first return of money. 

But if you did not use that option, it does not mean that you lost that money, only you have to contact customer service and decide how you use it: for the next booking or as a refund to your account.

I had that happen once with a guest who shortened a stay to get better transport (no bus on Sunday where they wanted to go). I had already received the whole payment but airbnb returned the money to her (after asking customer service not to hold it as credit) and it was deducted on my side at the next booking. As I had no other booking at the moment, I found that quite generous as Airbnb prefinanced the refund. 

[Deborah0]

As Andrew has often pointed out, many hosts, not just tenant hosts,  live in a "grey" area in terms of legality issues, since many cities have not even visited the issue of short term rental regulations yet.  If Airbnb had had to wait for clear regulations/legality of short term rentals to arise around the world, before opening its business, there would be no such thing as Airbnb today.  As several have remarked, if Brian Chesky, Joe Gebbia and  Nathan Blecharczyk  had tried to start Airbnb by going  into a City Council meeting and said, "please pass short term rental regulations so we can rent out our couch to visitors", they would have been laughed out of the council hall, and no one would be doing Airbnb hosting now.  It was necessary that short term rental hosting start to happen, and happen in large numbers, in order to get cities to wake up to the realities of changing times, and to start looking at doing short term rental regulations.  So, for this reason, I think we need to view "legality" issues in this context -- a context of cities having old laws on the books which were often put in place without good reason, and which don't make much sense at all today.  A context in which cities are struggling to keep up with the times.  

Tenant hosts have a second issue in play, in that they are subject not only to the same city/regional laws as others, but more importantly, to their rental agreements with their landlords.  My own view is that voluntary, free will agreements we have with other people, while perhaps being similar in their legal nature, are more ethically compelling, than involuntary requirements passed down on us by government entities. An agreement we freely entered into with another PERSON seems more ethically binding than an involuntary  requirement placed upon us by a government entity.  I would consider this distinction even more notable in the case of governments passing laws further restricting private property rights,  well after a property owner purchased a home in that city.    Also, because property owners are ultimately liable for everything that transpires upon their property (while tenants may not be liable) there is an additional ethical obligation that tenants have to property owners in this sense -- not to increase that owner's exposure to liability, by violating one's business contract (rental agreement) with that property owner.  

Finally, Tina and Laura should know that the advice that they are getting from Brian, is inaccurate.  Any renting out of a property owner's property by a tenant, is considered subletting, regardless of whether the tenant is there or not.  Sub-renting is sub-letting.   

[Jake0]

As someone who does both long term and short term rentals I would highly advise against ILLEGAL subletting, this is coming from a landlords perspective. I do my own renting and screen my own longterm and short term guests, when I take applications for someone to live longterm in my place and I do decide to let them sign the lease for my place it's because I personally feel comfortable with them living within the building that I own and am responsible for.

I decided on them because I have the belief that they will not damage my place with gross negligence, now I find out that some people I decided to rent to long term are now also renting out the spare room to complete strangers to live in the home that I OWN and will be liable to pay for incase of damage. This would not be okay at all for me and I wouldn't hesitate to immediately give them an eviction notice.

Anyone that is thinking of subletting should

A: get permission from the landlord

or

B:Had signed a lease that had no clause against subletting

The fact that the people can't "afford" the place they're renting shouldn't be brought into the equation as an excuse to illegally sublet which directly risks the integrity of the home that they're not liable for, instead they should think about moving somewhere more affordable or learn to budget better. Whatever is more financially appropriate for them

@Till-and-Jutta0  Very impressed with Brian in that video, doing his best to bring a positive light to this industry that is being hammered everywhere.