Sorting out approved tourism rentals from non approved

[Manager0]

Hello. We are in Perpignan France. All 9 apartments are listed with the tourism office. We have been inspected by an FNAIM agent. We have certificates. We are fully registered and insured  to conduct this type of commercial transaction. It has come to our attention that there are a number of people listed on AIRBNB that are not listed and approved to carry out this type of business. In fact some are subletting government assisted housing as vacation rentals. Yes they receive housing assistance and then rent that place out. This is illegal as it is against the rental terms and conditions to do this. It also creates a situation where the legitimate owners who pay tax have to compete with scammers. You would think there would be  a badge that could be displayed on apartments who can email in to AIRBNB proof of certification. Otherwise this just becomes a race to the bottom. 

[Ana-Cristina0]

Hello my name is Ana, I have my house , The Olive Tree House in Lisbon

I have Tourisme de Portugal license , I also have a special autirization from Lisbon Chamber.

I´m fully registered and insured  to conduct this type of commercial transaction.

I pay special taxes, also I have to pay much more for water, gas and electricitry. 

In Lisbon we also have this situation that there are a number of people listed on AIRBNB that are not listed and approved to carry out this type of business.

I think there would be  a badge that could be displayed on apartments who can email in to AIRBNB proof of certification

Otherwise this is not a fair competition

Kind Regards

Ana

[Will1]

Sorry for you Ana. But you should not have went and did all those registrations. The point of this to avoid and subvery all of those stupiid and unecessary governemnt oversights, controls and fees that generally result in no kidn of protection or support. If i were you I would cancel everything with them and start over again. The fact that you use more water and pay more for it is ludacris. What is even the point of doing this if you have to pay so much more that hardly make profit. 

[Wendy4]

To "The Manager" re non-approved...as far as legal vs. no legal, I hope you read Deborah's second message re what is legal today may not be legal tomorrow and vice versa.  Airbnb (along with similar loging listing platforms) is an emerging business model...and businesses of scale (as is Airbnb) espeically often go through major changes...they evolve based on trends and/or demand.  If more people demand resident hosted lodging, then that is where they will focus their energies.  If more people desire un-hosted residences then that is where Airbnb will put their money/resources/ focus.  I disagree that Airbnb is solely for the "little guy" or "small fry" for this reason. however, especially since Airbnb makes the most of it's money on the higher priced listings, read: NON RESIDENT HOSTED listings.  There are now many listing services...some are very specialized (e.g. for over 40, or over 50, donation based, even free lodging --see Seniors/Alternative_Travel_Accommodations_For_Seniors OR  nomadicmatt travel-tips/finding-cheap-accommodation/ for lists of various types of listing services.  I like the idea of travel clubs...very specialized for the seniors among us--small donation based.  Point is, there is something for everyone, and various ways to offer it. Airbnb is just one platform.   I personally have advocated nice I started doing Airbnb that the platform be separated into two sections:  Resident Hosted and Non-Resident Hosted.  I think that would save people a lot of time when searching.  A friend pointed out that :ENTIRE HOME /APT.  But that does not let guests know if their is a host near by--as in a guest house on a host's property.  Some traveles WANT a host to guide or assist them, as they navigate the region--e.g. they like /prefer they extra human touch that hotels and non-hosted properties cannot provide.  Now THAT should be the selling point that Airbnb uses to gain more business...but again, they make more money on the non-resident hosted listings. 

[Monica4]

The statement "airbnb was set up in support of the 'sharing economy'..." is true. But the key word here is "was set up". In my view it is no longer that. We don't "share" ....we rent to make money, hopefully. It is also true that everything evolves in one way or another and what is legal today may not be legal tomorrow. I had a letter from the Quebec governement about a year ago threatening "criminal action" if I did not shut down my guest house. I was already paying them lodging tax but was not aware that I had to send them proof of permission from my municipality, proof of ownership of the house or a rental agreement, and proof of liability insurance of $2 million. In addition, I have to pay for an inspector yearly. So that is all done. Do I feel resentful that others are operating "illegally" in my area? Of course I do! It is only human nature. I do have a plaque beside the front door of my guest house with the declaration that the house has been inspected by Tourism Quebec as a 2 star Tourist Home. I would like some kind of recognition on my listing that I am "legal" because this is all costing me a lot more that those hosts who are not licensed.

[Keith1]

In many municipalities which require permits, AirBnB has a "Permit / Tax ID"  location under, I believe, Edit Listing->Terms.

Although I don't currently see this box in my listings (perhaps because once it's set you can't change it?, although I'm not certain of this).

When looking to book in a location that requires permits, you can choose to only book listings with the permit displayed.

For San Francisco, the permit/tax id is displayed in a listing in the pricing section like this (the forum removed the formatting):

Prices

Cleaning Fee: $35

Weekly discount: 0%

Monthly discount: 0%

Cancellation: Moderate

Permit / Tax ID: STR-0000021

Keith

[Mic-and-Leeah0]

Keith,

I am in S. Calif and tried looking for where I might write my Permit/Tax ID #. I couldn't find it? But I think it would be a good idea to have a box like that to encourage the majority of hosts who have never bothered to go and read their city codes regarding running this kind of business. The codes were in place long before Airbnb, though from the many hosts I have spoken with, the majority don't know a thing about it, nor have bothered to check what the legal aspects of running a business like this is. It isn't as simple as cleaning the room and offering a coffee or beer and a local to talk with.

[Odette1]

Saskatoon Sk Canada as well, our city is not inspecting short term rental units unless they have construction/renovation inspector will permit and approve. This is differnt than having a 'legal suite' which has very high code requirements, insulation between the floors, completely separate electrical, heat and water meters essentially a legal suite is 'duplex' and property tax changes. My bnb suite is selfcontained but we share ulitlies, the lower level of my house, my home  owners insurance covers my rental unit, noted that my kitchenette is considered a 'wet bar'.. (no wiring for stove/oven) and this keeps the insurance affordable. I pay income tax on my BnB income according to the rental fee. And here is what I am wondering about, if you separate your nightly fee from your cleaning fee, how does that impact your income tax? 

Some BnB owners are advertising Legal suite (when they aren't actually legal) some advertise low nightly rates to attract guests but charge high cleaning fees (that ends up costing the guest the same or more as my advertised rate) .I do know that people are confused about my offer of free cleaning at the end of the booking because this detail this isn't as visible they have to read the house deails and my account About page  - 'cleaning fee' is not a search engine category,  It is unfair to other competeing Bnb's because that they list for less $ amount because it is a major a search engine category favours them getting more guests.  BUt I can't really complain because I am fully booked when my calendar is open, I don't have trouble finding guests. But I would like to pay less income tax, so I am wondering about the cleaning fee aspect. 

I discovereed a commercial motel  in a different Canadian city advertising their rooms on AirbnB. The rate  is a lot cheaper than a regular hotel room price. But they also advertise the price on TripAdvisor with other commercial hotels. The complication is I booked and paid through AirBnb and that added $9  to the nightly fee.  Had I booked directly with the motel I would have saved myself that extra $.  I am assuming the hotel also paid a fee to AirBnb via their account as Host - and the billing transcction was handled by AirBnb using my personal account approval as a Airbnb Super Host I have no trouble getting a Host to approve my booking, ultimately its still just a matter of available dates! 

When I arrived the commercial motel the desk agent also requested I give him my credit card (even though the booking went through AirBnB who already have my account information) for  a $100 surity that would be refunded on check out (it was).  They also photocopied my driver's license which I thought was odd and I was worried about that - at check out I asked for the photocopay to be returend to me. They complied but were unpleasant about it.  Worse thought, the room was a dissappointment, small and not in very good condition - kind of a dive actually, certainly they would not have anyone paying a regular hotel room fee for it ! It was in need of renovating, crowded with mismatched furniture, and lots of visible damage. Ironically they charge the same nightly rate that I do for my lovely BnB suite which is a full one bedroom apartment with private laundry and immaculate decore and total privacy.  

So I think AirBnB might  follow up and find out who is operating a commercial motel/hotel by using a personal name and only a single room photo ( othing mentioned about it being a motel)  to list the Airbnb account.

Thanks for listening, any comments most welcome.

Odette 

[Deborah0]

Well this is certainly rich -- Managers of Tourist hotels and commercial entities doing short term rentals, are coming onto Airbnb to complain about little homeowner hosts who aren't signed up with the proper paperwork? !! ?  What next, will we see the Hyatt Regency, Marriott and Hilton Hotel chains set up accounts on Airbnb and start complaining about Airbnb hosts renting out a room in their home who are not officially permitted to do short term rentals!!!??

Hyatt Regency Chicago - the REAL Airbnb!!  Who knew???

I think a major point is being missed here -- Airbnb began as little people renting rooms in their homes --- the places where they lived.  That was the purpose in its founding, and  that has been a unique aspect to Airbnb, differentiating it from VRBO or Trivago, or from the Hyatt Regency for that matter.  I am not opposed to small hotels or "hosts" (with the name "Manager"?)  who run an entire apartment building being listing on Airbnb, if they choose to (though I hope Airbnb has the good taste to not allow Hyatt Regency or Hilton, or any major hotel chain to list rooms on Airbnb) , but owners of such should keep in mind that the kind of commercial business you are running, is not the initial purpose of Airbnb, and it is not how Airbnb presents its offerings/intent.   The homeowner host or resident host is what Airbnb has emphasized.   

Keep in mind too, that when Brian, Joe and Nate began Airbnb, they started by offering a couch in their rented apartment.  Who knows if they even asked their landlord for permission.  THey didnt' get a "permit" first.  There were no "permits" then.  If Brian, Joe and Nate had dutifully gone down to the City Business office or into City Council , to get permission and make sure that they were legal before they started listing their couch, Airbnb would not exist today.  It was necessary that some serious momentum in hosting get going first, in order to create a phenomenon, to pressure cities to face up to the modern times by creating regulations that take modern phenomena into account.  Cities around the globe are just commencing to respond to this movement by creating modern short term rental regulations which recognize that having paying guests in one's own home was the original and most ancient type of hospitality.   

Further, I dont' know about the laws in France where you are, but it should be pointed out that at least in large urban centers in the USA (San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles) which have rent control laws and concerns about protecting housing for long term tenants, when cities create short term rental regulations, they very clearly prohibit doing short term rentals of entire apartments in apartment buildings, of the sort you are doing in France, Manager.  Large US Cities tend to create regulations that only allow hosts to do short term rentals in their primary residence, the place they actually live.  So ironically, the listings in your region in France which you call illegal, would be legal in San Francisco or New York, and the types of listings you are offering, would be illegal in San Francisco or New York.  So it is helpful to keep in mind that circumstances vary, around the globe. 

For all these reasons, it is quite inappropriate for large commercial hosts to come onto Airbnb and complain about small time hosts who rent out a room in their home.  

Finally, I'd like to issue a request to all hosts,  to avoid engaging in any type of "policing" of other hosts or other people's listings.   This policing behavior is distasteful, divisive and doesn't help build host community.    IN particular, it is offensive for large commerical hosts to be trying to police small hosts who rent out in the home they live in, on Airbnb, but I would prefer that none of us engage in attempts to police and monitor other people's businesses.  

The exception being that I think it behooves all of us to protect each other from crimes, by reporting scams and fraud of a criminal nature, where we see that (there are scam listings where fake hosts try to lure in unsuspecting guests to pay outside of Airbnb for instance, or fake guests try to scam hosts to go to phishing sites)  

[Jessa0]

Mr. Manager do you have a name and a photo? How about not violating airbnb's rules and regulations before getting upset about the little fish that make this community what it is? As for social housing, I can see the irony in it and the question whether these people really need social housing but people in social housing being entrepreneurial in non-drug related ways is pretty great no? Maybe with the modest extra income they make on their spare bedroom they can move out of social housing eventually freeing social housing up for the many refugees now camping out in indoor sports centers, military tents and so forth?

[Sabina1]

Dear Jessa. BRAVO. Wonderful idea!

[Glenn0]

Well said Deborah

The issue of physting is probably worth a separate posting as well

One example that occurred to my place was a 'photographer' who wanted to rent it in 'exchange for rental payment'.

Didn't" touch it with a barge pole" as we say here in Oz

[Glenn0]

Well said Deborah

The issue of physting is probably worth a separate posting as well

One example that occurred to my place was a 'photographer' who wanted to rent it in 'exchange for rental payment'.

Didn't" touch it with a barge pole" as we say here in Oz

[Will1]

Bravo Deborah! Screw these corporations always posing as people and attepmting to take over the little people. I hope Airbnb kicks them all out. But i dont see it happening. More likely Airbnb will go corporate for the money and another company will emerge on our side. 

[Mic-and-Leeah0]

I don't see any corporations in this thread. Just a man in a lovely town in France, who most likely had his 9 "apartments" (as they say in France -  possibly a B&B or maybe real apartments as we know them in the USA) even before Airbnb started.

I think it is morally wrong to obtain & rent out a low-cost housing. Finding lowcost housing in any city in the world is difficult - to be used as Airbnb rentals is not right,unless, of course, this economically disadvantaged person lives there and is trying to supplement his income. Then I would say YEAH! But, this does not seem to be the case as I understand what "manager" wrote above.

I agree with Will that Airbnb will go corporate (or public) whenever they can start to show a profit.

I respectfully disagree with Will about the "paperwork". Rules and ordinances have a good place in a just society. If you remember the financial crisis in housing and banking? Well, in short what made that all possible and rocked the whole economic world and gave Airbnb a perfect time to launch, was the lack of financial regulations in the banking world. There is nothing wrong with well thought-out regulations and laws. They protect all of us.