Gender and Age Discrimination? Host Using Scare Tactic to get me to Cancel

[Alex1383]

Hello Airbnb community!

First I want to say, this is my first time posting on these forums. And this may be somewhat of a long post. I apologize in advance, but I am really looking for some sort of help/advice. I know that younger guests are a touchy subject within the Airbnb community and I am 23. Not 16, or 18.... but 23. I'm a college grad with a full time job, paid off car, my own place, and a normal, respectable, human being. Probably act more like a 30 year old than an 18 year old.

I applied to reserve a place on Sept. 1 in the Rocky Mountains for myself and a group of friends to go skiing over New Years (28th-1st.) After applying, the host accepted my reservation request (NOT instant book), I was charged for the payment, and I reached out to the host, saying thank you for the opportunity and that we are looking forward to staying at their place. I did not get a response back for 10 weeks. Then, 6 weeks before our visit, the host sent me a 3 paragraph message, stating that we are not welcome to stay at their place. They say that because we are a "group of 10+ guys in our early 20's" that we will throw a party, cause damage to the property, and potentially create issues for the neighbors, and end up having the HOA call the police and fine the homeowner. She told me that she wasn't paying attention to my booking request when first applying and would have rejected me immediately if she noticed the circumstances. Again, this is less than two months away from our reservation, now that 99% of spots are booked and whatever is left costs $2500+ a night.

Background:

 - My group is 10 people. Not 50. Not 20. The posting has 5 beds and holds 10 people.

-  My group consists of people ages 22 to 25.

- My group is not all guys. It consists of men and women. 

- I have only used Airbnb 3 times. I have 3 perfect reviews. "Respectful, clean, would recommend" are some of the words hosts have used to describe me.

- No...we are not throwing a party. We just need a cheap place to stay during our ski trip.

- Who celebrates New Years with a party in a stranger's home? Was never even a thought. We will be spending time at the mountain villages and local bars like normal people.

My host then says that she will not cancel the booking (she probably doesn't know that I know that if she does so, she won't be able to rebook someone else) but that my group has to find another place to stay and cancel our reservation with her by December 14th in order to get our refund. She then says that if we DON'T find another place and simply show up to this location, they will refuse us entry, meaning we will be literally stranded 700 miles from home. 

It might seem pretty harmless compared to other forms of discrimination, but regardless of that, doesn't her reasoning for refusing us entry fall under age and gender discrimination? I read her entire post. We will be following the rules. There was no additional age requirement. And if we were all "guys" like she assumed, then that automatically means we will damage her property, in her eyes.

Instead of replying, I first went straight to Airbnb support to find out what my options are. They reached out to the host many times for over a week with no response. She finally responds, saying that we can only stay there if we agree to pay an extra $50 per person per night, for 6 "extra" guests due to a pricing error. An extra $1200. If it was a pricing error, she could have informed me the NEXT DAY after accepting my reservation and we could have worked something out like civil adults. This sort of confirms my guess that she was trying to scare me into cancelling so she could rebook another party at a higher rate. But since I called her bluff, she is trying to pass that higher rate to me and my guests. My case manager stated that if we don't agree to these terms, our reservation will be cancelled, the host will have the standard penalties, and they will help us with rebooking. But everywhere I've looked, Airbnb only refunds the original purchase and provides an extra 10-20% to help find another place. This won't even come close to getting us another place. (I've looked everywhere.)

At this point, I'm just unsure of what to do. I specifically booked this place because of the price. For an extra $1200, 3 months ago I could've booked a nicer place in a better area. My group and I have spent thousands on ski passes and equipment, taken time off work, and passed on other New Year's plans all for this trip. This trip is now a month away. Am I incorrect in believing she threatened me and used discrimination in her message? It is stated very clearly in Airbnb's policy that you cannot reject a guest based on gender and age, and her message mentioned both. It is my understanding that because of this, I could potentially take legal action to cover the expenses that have come with this trip if it comes to that. I should mention that I still have yet to reach out to the host directly since she sent her first message. I'm unsure if I should try to talk to her and show her that we are simply needing a place to stay and we are respectful. I just thought that having Airbnb support as a mediator would help diffuse the situation a bit, but that has proven unsuccessful.

Thank you so much in advance for any insight. 

[Emiel1]

@Alex1383,

Airbnb is doing a lazy job here. They should educate the host that there is reservation made here according all proper rules and it can not be cancelled. And if Airbnb will cancel using the standard panelties then the reserved dates will be blocked on the listing. It means the host end up with empty pocket. But i fear this panelty will not be used against the host. The story of the "pricing error" is offcourse nonsense.

"refunding the original purchase and provides an extra 10-20% to help find another place" is NOT helping with rebooking, airbnb should relocate your group without extra costs. They should even charge the host for the extra costs !

IMO Airbnb should force the host to keep the reservation by stating to the host she otherwise will be removed form the platform by violating essential rules, including discrimination.

Ask for another case manager !

Best regards,

Emiel

[Helen3]

Sorry I can't agree with @Emiel1 on this one.

This host has behaved appallingly and they will not honour this booking, so no point trying to force the host to accept your booking.

Airbnb should remove them as a host from the platform automatically not as a threat.

Airbnb are offering you a refund and 10% uplift is all you are entitled to under the T&Cs you booked under.

However it is worth asking them to help you find a comparable alternative but you may need to be flexible in your location for this to happen.

You can also push for a higher than normal payment pointing out that because of the hosts actions in keeping your booking for months before trying to cancel there is now little suitable accommodation at a similar price left in the resort.

[Emiel1]

@Helen3,

It is not a matter of "force the host to accept the booking", there is allready a  confirmed reservation. Mainly in the interest of the guests Airbnb could give the host the option: Change your attitude and honour the reservation at the best you can (including saying sorry), or go.

Best regards,

Emiel

[Mark116]

The host can't do what they are trying to do, which is force you to cancel when you don't want to, although on some level I can understand and emphasize with the hosts fears that a large group of 20 somethings on NY Eve might be problematic, but the host should have thought of that before accepting the reservation.  So, the mistake is on the host, and if they really are that uncomfortable, then they can plead their case to airbnb to get a penalty free cancellation, or cancel you with all the adjacent penalities.

If I were you I might look around and see if you can find alternative housing, get airbnb to help, because the host might still go ahead and cancel your reservation since they clearly don't want to host you.

[Alex1383]

Hey Mark, since you mentioned that a group of younger people during a holiday may put you on edge... From your perspective, would you respect and trust the guest more if they reached out to you to discuss the situation? Just to show that they understand where you're coming from and that they are actually taking the time to keep your concerns in mind. I'm just unsure if I should do so or not.

[Mark116]

To be honest, when potential guests say 'we are totally respectful of your space, we are neat and tidy, we don't do drugs, etc.' they almost are always messy and not respectful, LOL.

But, what you could do, rather than make a similar statement, is in your initial request give some extra background on yourself and your planned activities that might mitigate any concerns. So, in this case, if you had plans to go out on New Year's Eve that might have helped the host feel that you wouldn't be hosting your own party.  As another example, if someone makes a request and says they want to spend Spring Break in NYC, that won't be happening at my house:)  If they say they are coming for an event/concert/wedding, or otherwise offer a sense that they aren't coming to 'party' and/or if their profile gives a level of background that also gives a sense they are responsible, e.g. job, hobbies, etc. then that is helpful to feel more comfortable.  I hope that helps.

[John1080]

@Alex1383, this host should be ashamed. It is her fault that she was not doing her due diligence and paying attention to her listing and the bookings coming in.  She should now accept the booking for what it is and her mistake for what it is and go ahead and host you.

That said, it seems Airbnb is not going to be much help to you and unless you want to pay quite a bit more at this near date, I believe if I were in your shoes I would swallow this bitter pill and go ahead and accept the extra fee since you're probably not going to get much of anything this close in, unfortunately! 

If you do end up staying, I would make sure that there is absolutely nothing that she is able to complain about in her review - it sounds like there would not be, and I would be very sure to leave her the appropriate review reflecting the way she has behaved. 

[Kelly149]

Man, that stinks. But, I wouldn’t stay with that host. I can think of about 100 ways that booking could go wrong. 

Lesson learned that an Abb reservation is never guaranteed. Especially one that is “a good deal”. By its nature any reservation is a singular solitary space. If ANYTHING goes wrong, what is the backup plan??

Before your arrival a host COULD:

die

go crazy

quit hosting

have another guest trash the place

decide you’re shady 

lose electricity 

have a forest fire.......

if i were you id keep hammering on abb to find me a new place, but staying with this host or trying to sue them for the disappearance of your good deal is probably a lost cause. 

Good luck. Oh & don’t cancel. Insist that the host bears that mark. 

[Alex1383]

I agree. That's actually why I reached out to abb support initally. Airbnb is definitely not a foolproof system and one must account for unforeseen circumstances. But a host not responding for 10 weeks when she should know right away she has an issue with her guest is as negligent as it can get.

And I should clarify, this wasn't necessarily "a good deal," but I was looking at about 5 different places that were within our budget and we simply decided on this one. If I had known this place was 'supposed' to be $1200 more, then I really could have chosen a place that had absolutely everything we wanted for that price. Now, absolutely nothing is anywhere close to our budget. As for the potential legal action, that is explained more in my most recent post below. Thank you again for your input!

[Mark116]

Eh, if it was "supposed to be" more expensive, that is on the host for not managing the listing properly, so I wouldn't worry about that.  If airbnb can't rehouse you, then it seems like you will be staying there, unless the host cancels you, I agree the host definitely dug themselves in deeper using age as an issue, because discrimination is one of airbnb's hot buttons.

[Kelly149]

well, there's no way for any of us to know if the pricing "should" have been $1200 more or if that is just a number that she's throwing at you to try to get you to go away.

And I sleep 10 guests, am on IB and I totally understand a host being nervous about that, but that's on her to setup her security and her protocols. 10 guests of any age can be a problem at any time, that is a reality that any host should be prepared to deal with.

And I totally agree with you that ABB "should" be more helpful in situations like this, but the reality is that they don't own anything and if there isn't anything else to be rented then there isn't anything else to be rented.

A couple of take aways:

no booking is foolproof, but a host with a robust profile, SuperHost, no cancellations, good reviews, etc is a good place to start

and if there is a reservation booked and then either party goes utterly radio silent for 10 weeks, then yes, that is probably a bad sign

[Alex1383]

@Emiel1, @John1080, @Helen3 and everyone else, thank you for your time and replies. It seems that opinions are relatively split.. not surprised haha. I know that no matter how BAD this host may be, rude, unempathetic, lying, etc... there's nothing that I or Airbnb can do about that. It is not against policy and it is not illegal. And I understand that. I also understand that Airbnb refunding me +10% is all they are obligated to do. 

The reason I say I would expect Airbnb to do help out with this situation however, is the fact that the host turned to discrimination in her excuse to not host me. She was trying to find an excuse that wasn't "I didn't charge you enough" and in turn actually dug herself into a deeper hole with the age and gender discrimination comments. THAT is the part that is against Airbnb policy. That is the part that I am not okay with. That is the only reason that this situation isn't as simple as me sucking it up and simply having to deal with an unpleasant host. And honestly, that should be reason enough for Airbnb to make sure they support this issue as best as possible because bad marks like this have hurt Airbnb, both monetarily and legally.

[John1080]

@Alex1383, this is a difficult one for sure. To me, it would come down to how badly do I want to make the trip and how much more do I want/can I pay for the trip? If Airbnb can assist you in finding another place at a price you're comfortable with or at least willing to pay, then I'd go that route. If not, obviously, you have no option really other than cancel the trip or agree to pay the extra and hope all goes well. 

Really a stressful situation. Wish you the best and let us know what happens! 

[Sarah977]

@Alex1383  I agree that the host has behaved extremely poorly.  And I appreciate that you recognize why hosts may be leery of a booking for 10 people in their 20's. (10 bad guests can make a huge disaster, it doesn't have to be 20 or 50) Although hosts are not supposed to discriminate based on age, there have been SO many situations where young people misrepresented their intentions, did have parties with a cast of 50-80, trashed the place, damaged things, and disturbed the neighborhood. And just as you found Airbnb to be less than supportive, they are also remiss when it comes to collecting or paying out for damages hosts incur. 

It's unfortunate indeed that responsible young people like you seem to be, bear the brunt of the bad experiences with other young demographics. (It's interesting to hear you say you probably act more like a 30 year old than an 18 year old- there seem to be an awful lot of 30 year olds these days who act like 15 year olds :-))

I've hosted several guests who were in their early 20's, and with the exception of one who left her room a pigsty (but was otherwise very sweet), all the rest have been delightful, respectful people.

As to your question: " From your perspective, would you respect and trust the guest more if they reached out to you to discuss the situation? Just to show that they understand where you're coming from and that they are actually taking the time to keep your concerns in mind. I'm just unsure if I should do so or not." Yes, definitely. But not necessarily with this host, who sounds difficult, although you could try. In the future, though, for sure. The fact that you understand the concerns, and that they are valid, although not necessarily as it applies to you and your group, is a great way to start off a conversation with a host you are interested in booking with. In fact, if I were young, I'd never use Instant Book, but start by sending the host a friendly message, introducing myself, acknowledging that some hosts are wary of young guests, and then setting their mind at ease by mentioning your past reviews, the care you take with other's places, that you were raised to show respect, that you actually know how to clean up after yourself, that you read through the entire listing description. I think that would set a lot of hosts' minds at ease or at least make them willing to give young people a chance.